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| From | Message | Posted by doctor_knight austinfilmfestival.org
8/04/2008 22:59:42 Play online chess | Subject: elusive openings
Message: hello everyone, I was just wondering what kind of openings you might consider "elusive" or "deceptive" and why.
| Posted by ionadowman austinfilmfestival.org
8/05/2008 13:52:02 Play online chess | doctor_knight...
Message: ... Do you have any examples of what you think might be elusive or deceptive? Maybe the Modern Defence? I don't know the state of the theory these days, but it seemed to be one of those defences in which too direct an approach by White tended to close on thin air, whereupon Black's counterplay could prove decisive.
A couple of years ago witchman organised a "Hippo-Feustel-Robatsch" MT with the opening 1.e4 g6 2.d4. Bg7 3.Nf3. I think White won more than he lost, but not by a statistically significant margin.
Here's an example of the play - a wild and woolly encounter
White: ionadowman Black: chuckventimiglia
1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nf3 b6 4.c4 c5
5.dxc5!? bxc5 6.Qd5!? Nc6 7.Qxc5!? Rb8 8.Nc3 Nb4
9.Bf4 Rb7 10.Rc1 d6 11.Qe3 e5 12.Qd2 exf4
13.Nb5 Rxb5 14.cxb5 Nxa2 15.Rc6 Nf6 16.Bc4 Bd7
17.e5 Ne4 18.Qd5 Be6 19.Qxe4 d5 20.Qxf4 dxc4
21.0-0 0-0 22.Rxc4 Qd5 23.Ra4 Qxb5 24.Rxa7 Qxb2
25.Re1 Nc3 26.Qe3 Nd5 27.Qe4 Rc8 28.Nd4 Qb4
29.h3 Nc3 30.Qe3 Nb5 31.Nxb5 Qxb5 32.Qd4 Bd5
Draw agreed. Such a fast pace couldn't endure forever!
Cheers,
Ion
| Posted by doctor_knight austinfilmfestival.org
8/17/2008 21:54:06 Play online chess |
Message: yes I suppose most modern openings is kind of what I mean. But I was also thinking about elusive in that perhaps in a certain type of opening or line it is easy to forget about one wing. And not necessarily difficult to see far in, just perhaps difficult to remember certain aspects of the position. Hopefully I'm clear enough. Of course it may be that nearly all openings are like this to an extent. Anyway, I thought elusiveness in chess might be an interesting topic to discuss in general as well as openings.
Hopefully my writing is not too elusive :) ——— After Four Rounds of the Chess Olympiad, Several Favorites Have Fallen — Seven teams have won all of their matches through the first four rounds of the biennial Chess Olympiad. Four of those teams — the top two Russian teams, Hungary and Armenia — were ranked among the top six at the start, so their standing is no surprise. But three of the leaders — the Netherlands, the Republic of Georgia and Vietnam — are unexpected, in particular the last two, who were ranked No. 20 and 27, respectively, when the chess competition began. Several of the pre-tournament favorites ran into unexpected trouble early on. Ukraine, which was ranked No. 2, gave up a drawn match to Croatia, No. 28, in Round 3. (Matches are between teams of four players). Ukraine is now tied for ...
Posted by ionadowman austinfilmfestival.org
8/18/2008 02:36:37 Play online chess | Perhaps opaque is the word...
Message: ... I still think an example or two might help. I tended to think of openings that are perhaps obscure/enigmatic/elusive in some sense that the enemy is very difficult to pin down. The Modern Defence is like that, but maybe so is the English Opening.
But it seems to me what you might be driving at is the kind of opening that is difficult to master on account of (a) it's variety of avenues to explore, and (b) its tendency to "lead one up the garden path" into disaster, or to obscure and problematical byways.
I remember being shown, many years ago by a well-known player in this country, some very murky ideas for Black in the Alekhine's Defence and in the Nimzo-Indian. I have no recollection of details except that the former involved an early ...c5 as I recall, whilst the latter was a line something like this: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 Ne4 6.Qc2 f5 7.f3 Qh4+ 8.g3 Nxg3 9.Qf2 f5 10.hxg3 Qxh1 11.Nh3 etc. (I'm fairly sure this ain't it, but the idea was similar: the Q snatched White's h1-rook, but then had to oil out of the trap somehow. I gather the whole idea was one of M. Tal's schemes).
This line reminds me of a game I played earlier in the year against an opponent who has a healthy disrespect for rating differences:
White: ionadowman Black: nicolso
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5 (The Torre Attack. Not too much theory: highly recommended) 3...Ne4 4.Bh4 f6!?
An interesting concept...
5.e3 h5!?
Now this was getting decidedly worrying. I'd not seen this before! In the end I couldn't find anything better than
6.Ng1 g5 7.f3 gxh4 8.fxe4 dxe4 with a mess. I don't think White has anything better than an even game at this point, and might even have the worse of it.
Cheers,
Ion
——— Yemen sacks chess team for playing against Israel — Yemen has sacked the country's chess team and members of the governing body after its players competed against Israel at a chess tournament in Belarus. The Yemeni Sports minister, Hamud Mohammed Ubad, took the unusual decision after chess players ignored instructions to pull out if drawn against Israel, which is widely criticised in the Middle East for its policies towards the Palestinians. "This was an individual action contrary to the policy of Yemen, which refuses any normalisation with Israel," said Mr Ubad, adding that the chess players were on their way home from Minsk. Like several other Middle Eastern countries, Yemen does not have diplomatic relations with Israel and bars ...
Posted by doctor_knight austinfilmfestival.org
8/21/2008 19:59:14 Play online chess |
Message: wow. I'll have to look into those.
I think I'm talking more about the type of middlegame positions that come about due to certain openings. ——— As Chess Olympiad Begins, No Surprises, but More Controversy — The first round of the Chess Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia, on Tuesday did not produce any upsets, though a few high-ranked chess teams yielded a draw or two. According to the Olympiad’s Web site, there are 1,300 players from 144 countries. The Chess Olympiad, which was first held in 1927 (or 1924, unofficially), is convened every two years. The 2010 Olympiad is particularly important as elections for the top offices in the World Chess Federation, the game’s governing body, will be held near the end of the competition. Prior to the start of the Olympiad, it had been plagued by problems, including a race to finish building the main venues before the teams arrived. Now that the chess event has ...
Posted by doctor_knight austinfilmfestival.org
8/25/2008 22:56:07 Play online chess |
Message: sorry for double posting, but I don't think I started the topic right or really gave it quite the right title. What I really wanted was to discuss how to be elusive in chess. Whether in the endgame, the middlegame, or the opening. So I suppose my title was wrong then :) ——— Chess Puzzles: Richard Reti's Marvelous Squares — A chessboard is a square, divided into 64 black and white squares. But there are more squares in chess, mostly invisible, as part of an amazing chess geometry hidden in chess players' minds. One classic square is often used in pawn endgames when a king is chasing the enemy's passed pawn. The king doesn't have to walk in horizontal or vertical lines, he can run diagonally or zig-zag across the field. But he needs to be close enough to catch the pawn. How close? The king has to walk into a square whose one side is defined as the distance between the pawn and its promoting square at the edge of the board. We can use a famous study by Richard Reti as an example. The world-class player ...
Posted by lighttotheright austinfilmfestival.org
8/26/2008 00:40:41 Play online chess |
Message: The problem with trying to play elusive in chess is that the answer is always laid bare within the position. Your opponent only needs to look deep enough.
When you are prepared, playing elusive might work against an opponent you know well. You can play an opening where he is weak and where you have an advantage. If your opponent is unfamiliar with an opening that you play well, then your chances at some sort of successful deception grow considerably. This especially works best when there is less time for your opponent to think the position through. Faster time controls usually give the person with more experience an advantage.
——— Lahno Wins Women’s World Blitz Chess Championship — To be good at blitz, or speed, chess, players must think quickly and have good tactical skills. That is why the best chess players under slow, or classical, chess time controls are not necessarily the best at the faster form of the game. Though only 20 years old, Kateryna Lahno of Ukraine has been among the best women players in the world for seven years and is now ranked No. 7. She is actually ranked higher than Alexandra Kosteniuk of Russia, the current women’s world chess champion, who is No. 10. She is clearly an excellent classical chess player and has won the European Individual Women’s Championship twice (in 2005 and 2008). Now she has proven that she may be even more adept at speed chess. ...
Posted by doctor_knight austinfilmfestival.org
8/29/2008 09:51:15 Play online chess |
Message: yeah, that makes sense. Of course in most other things, like war for example, the only thing the enemy doesn't have theoretical access to is the plans in the opponent's head. Theoretically, satellites, spies, planes, UAVs, and scouts can reveal anything physical. However, there is a matter of practicality. Like you said, the opponent only has to look deep enough, but is that practical? You only have so much time and there are so many possibilities to explore. In warfare, there's so much territory to cover and so many aspects of the enemy to explore but a limited amount of resources. In correspondence, it's easier, but we are still not machines (and hopefully don't use them).
There's perhaps one example that may help. I've never played the hedgehog defense, but I've heard that it is deceptively docile. I don't know how true this is because no one has played it against me, but it seems to be kind of what I'm talking about.
Another thing that I was thinking about is feinting. Is there such a thing as feinting in chess? I'm sure there is. I'm mainly speaking of intentionally drawing the opponent's attention in one direction to open up another weakness. I guess one example could have to do with the over-worked piece that must defend several targets, but that is a tactical matter and is not necessarily a feint in my book (it is a legitimate attack). What about strategically feinting? Would this be more of a matter of the opening with transpositions? Can you feint by maneuvering? Is this more possible in closed positions or open positions?
| Posted by lighttotheright austinfilmfestival.org
8/31/2008 11:06:37 Play online chess |
Message: The principle of double attack is well established, tactical and strategy wise. I would not call that feinting. The best description of a feint strategy is using something that is normally considered weak to prompt your opponent to let down his guard or perhaps even over extend himself with what are usually considered strong responses.
If you as White played 1. e3, that would be considered a feint. Although it is generally considered a weak move on White's part, 1. e3 e5 2. d4 and it turns out that it is not so bad after all (Amsterdam Attack). Alekhine's Defense is another classical example of a feinting strategy in the opening.
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